• Home
  • Blog: Ministry in Romania
  • Get Some Answers
    • Holy Week Answers
  • Get In Touch
  • Catechism
  • Videos
    • Sermons
  • Newsletters
  • Home
  • Blog: Ministry in Romania
  • Get Some Answers
    • Holy Week Answers
  • Get In Touch
  • Catechism
  • Videos
    • Sermons
  • Newsletters
   

John the Baptist doesn't censure the centurion for being a soldier even though the soldier asks him what he must do for true repentance.

4/17/2014

4 Comments

 
In Luke 3 we see some soldiers come to John the Baptist seeking repentance and baptism. This is a much more powerful passage against pacifism than the one where Jesus tells the centurion that he's never seen as much faith as he had, because there is no context there for an admonishment or exhortation. Jesus wasn't talking about the man's profession and since the passage isn't about that, we have no idea what else they talked about or what the centurion did with his life. Just as we know so little about all the sinners Jesus met with, what they did with their lives after Jesus, and just as Jesus doesn't admonish every sinner with whom we see him, that centurion passage doesn't show anything. 

In this Luke passage, however, the soldiers ask John what they must do to repent and John tells them three things (NIV)- don't extort, don't accuse falsely, and be content with pay. What seems to be missing from John the Baptist's exhortation is that he doesn't tell the soldiers that they must leave the army. This seems to imply that being in the army - which would certainly mean doing bodily harm for some - was legitimate. So what do the pacifists have to say? 

1) This is one of those passages where the translation makes a big difference. If you read the text from the KJV, John tells the men to - do no violence, don't accuse falsely, and be content with your wages. In fact, the rendering of this word as "extortion of money" is a very narrow reading, as most of the definitions for the Greek word used here involve physical violence.

Now if John is telling soldiers to do no violence, what might that mean for their career? It may mean they have to leave their profession (more on that here). 

2. Even if we take the more generous interpretation for anti-pacifists, John the Baptist failing to tell soldiers to leave the army wouldn't be all that surprising. John was the last prophet of the OT. There were a number of times he didn't really understand Christ's way or what he was doing, and at one point he even sent messengers to ask Jesus if he really was the Messiah. Jesus was extremely revolutionary, and the extent of his Kingdom was not realized by any of his closest disciples until after the resurrection. John's failure to directly exhort soldiers to leave warfare wouldn't mean that much to me. 

3. This argument is at best an argument from silence. Even if we take out alternate interpretations of the word "violence" and we assume that John knew exactly what Christ's kingdom was and how he would bring it, this passage would still say nothing of itself about violence. It may be an interesting piece of evidence to bolster an already strong case, but I don't think anti-pacifists have much of a foundation for this verse to be very helpful to them. 
4 Comments
Selah Ahmed ibn Malachi link
3/29/2022 03:51:03 am

Ok notice John didn't tell the tax collectors to stop collection of tax only take what you are authorize to take. The bible even say to befriend childern of mammon. The word of God action comes with strategy for real word answer---others must be convinced in that same situation without the bases of the profession being in question morally. Remember Jesus tell the young rich ruler to sell all and follow is Jesus saying no rich people allowed YES because the profession calls for one to hoard while many lack on a planet created in abundance to help mankind live peacefully. Military help wicked nations expansion therefore they are pillaging but within military soldiers are humans to convince of righteousness and therefore convince others with actions of righteousness even winning over many-- They will to he point to stand and say no on expansionism. Look at the situation with vaccination and solidarity of soldiers saying NO

Reply
Thomas Ray
2/3/2023 09:51:54 pm

The problem is John told them to be content with their pay, which isn't an argument from silence.

One could argue against being a soldier from "do no violence"

But how would one twist the intention of John with the third thing he tells the soldiers, be content with their pay?

This seems dishonest, especially in the whole biblical context, being a soldier wasn't evil for Gideon or David.

God used the Assyrians, and their later punishment was that they trusted in their swords, not that they had and used them.

Reply
Thomas Ray
2/3/2023 09:56:47 pm

I apologize, I read to sparingly and responded believing you were arguing for pacifism.

I'd retract my previous comment if I could but I will do my best to learn from this and be slower to speak.

I see you were defending the profession of a soldier, and I am in agreement with the profession being permissible.

I saw your point 1. and thought it was a defense of the "do no violence" argument for pacifism. Apologies.

Thomas Ray

Reply
Derek
2/3/2023 10:27:37 pm

No worries! Discussions and disagreement are great. I do indeed argue for pacifism, but this is just one part of a cumulative case. I would never argue from this point - this is just one of the issues I have to address in defense of the position.

You make a great point that John is clearly endorsing the profession to some extent because he is allowing them to remain in that position. But I would say that it wasn't John's place at that time to understand all that Jesus was doing. He simply prepared the way. That's why he asked if Jesus was really the Messiah, because the prison doors weren't being opened as the Messiah was supposed to do. He didn't fully grasp the Kingdom of God and what all that entailed.

I'd also point to the fact that many soldiers during the Pax Romana functioned as construction workers and peacekeepers that didn't really do violence. We know this because we have early church documentation where they tell soldiers that they're allowed to remain in their position so long as they do no violence. Obviously it was a possibility to be a soldier and do no violence in some times and places. So John may have either been ignorant of Jesus's true Kingdom in this regard, or he may have had an early church approach of remain, but do no violence.

I expound on this a bit more in my podcast. The first few seasons are lower quality recordings, but you might be interested in my cumulative case for pacifism. Episode 6 deals specifically with this, but you might also enjoy my interview with Zack Johnson, a Kennedy School guy who left the military as he learned about the early church stance on nonviolence. That's season 9, episode 195.


https://thefourthway.transistor.fm/episodes

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    *The views and ideas on this site are in no way affiliated with any organization, business, or individuals we are a part of or work with. They're also not theological certainties. They're simply thinking out loud, on issues and difficulties as I process things.

    Categories

    All
    Abortion
    Abortion Counterrebuttals
    Afterlife
    Apologetics
    Atheism
    Atonement
    Baptism
    Christian Life
    Church
    Cosmology
    COVID 19
    COVID-19
    Death
    Free Will
    Generosity And Wealth
    G.K. Chesterton
    Government
    Grace And Mercy
    Incarnation
    Inerrancy
    Joy
    Love
    Materialism
    Meaningpurpose
    Media
    Ministry-and-outreach
    Ministry-and-outreach
    Morality
    On-guard
    Pacifism
    Pacifism-counterrebuttals
    Podcast
    Poetry
    Politics
    Politics-of-jesus
    Pragmatism And Consequentialism
    Prayer
    Problem-of-evil
    Race-and-unity
    Rapid Fire
    Rebellion
    Reformed
    Relationships
    Salvation
    Social-issues
    Social-justice
    Sovereignty-of-god
    Spirit
    Spiritual-warfare
    Spontaneous-expansion-of-the-church
    Suffering
    Tradition
    Trinity
    When-helping-hurts


    Archives

    February 2024
    January 2024
    December 2023
    August 2023
    July 2023
    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    February 2022
    January 2022
    November 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    June 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    March 2015
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2013
    March 2009
    July 2007
    June 2007
    May 2007
    April 2007
    March 2007
    February 2007
    January 2007

    RESOURCES

    Check out some of our favorite online resources for theology and apologetics by clicking on the images below. 

    Picture
    Picture
    Picture

    RSS Feed

Proudly powered by Weebly